sean_dublin said:SURMOUNT-1 landed around 20.9% mean weight loss at 15mg over 72 weeks, against roughly 15% for semaglutide 2.4mg in STEP 1.
Saving this. It is the first explanation that did not require me to already understand it.
Adding the clinical framing, because it changes how the question reads.
nancy_portland said:...we don't know the long-term effects of cardiovascular risk...
This is a fair point, and I think intellectual honesty requires acknowledging it. GLP-1 agonists in their current form have ~8-10 years of human exposure data. That's not nothing, but it's not 30+ years either.
However: the risk-benefit calculation should also consider the KNOWN long-term effects of untreated obesity — diabetes, cardiovascular disease, cancer, joint destruction, reduced lifespan by 5-10 years.
Uncertainty about GLP-1 long-term safety vs certainty about obesity consequences. The calculus seems clear to me, but reasonable people can disagree.
VendorMark said:The GIP arm is doing real work rather than padding the label.
This is where I part company with the consensus forming above. The "tirzepatide is simply better" summary irritates me. It is better on mean weight loss, and the cardiovascular outcome evidence is far thinner than semaglutide's. If the reason for treating is cardiovascular risk rather than weight, the evidence base points the other way.
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View Resultsnancy_portland said:SELECT is the trial that changed the framing of this class, because it was an outcome trial rather than a weight trial: about a 20% relative reduction…
SUSTAIN-6 was the first CVOT to show cardiovascular benefit with semaglutide, relevant to cardiovascular risk. In 3,297 T2DM patients with high CV risk: MACE HR 0.74 (95% CI 0.58-0.95, p=0.02)[1].
Notable: the retinopathy signal in SUSTAIN-6 (HR 1.76) was subsequently attributed to rapid A1C reduction in patients with pre-existing retinopathy — not a direct drug effect. This has been confirmed in longer-term follow-up studies.
Moderator note: the sourcing question belongs in the vendor section and has been split out. Tagging this one for the weekly digest.