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ForumsPublic SquareCan someone explain this to me like I am five? — anyone have experience?

Can someone explain this to me like I am five? — anyone have experience?

SteveThurs Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 10:48 PM 7 replies 1,657 viewsPage 1 of 2
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SteveThurs
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Dec 5, 2024 at 10:48 PM#1

My own curve sits about four points below the published mean and I spent two months assuming that meant something was wrong with me or with my material.

So the question, as narrowly as I can put it: how to read a result like this without either dismissing it or over-reading it, since the summaries all read like press releases.

Practical detail welcome, however dull — the duller the better.

18 21MaxMetOK, MounjBrad, nick_newbie and 15 others
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COA_Karl
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Dec 6, 2024 at 12:32 AM#2

This one has a reasonably settled answer, so here it is. Read four things before the headline number. The population, because trial populations are selected and supported in ways that real cohorts are not. The comparator, because "better than placebo" and "better than the current standard" are different claims and get reported identically. The primary endpoint as pre-registered, because a secondary endpoint promoted after the fact is a hypothesis rather than a finding. And the completion rate, because a large effect in the half of participants who finished is a different result from a large effect in everybody enrolled.

Last edited: Dec 6, 2024 at 1:32 AM
19 22jim_asheville, matt_MKE, Dr.ReproEndo and 16 others
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Dr.PeteFamMed
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Dec 6, 2024 at 2:16 AM#3
COA_Karl said:
Read four things before the headline number.
COA_Karl said:
...regarding the trial evidence...

I think this is an underappreciated point. To expand on it with some data:

A recent meta-analysis of 18 RCTs (n=15,600) found that the trial evidence was associated with a robust effect size across diverse patient populations[1].

The NNT was 15, which is comparable to antihypertensives for stroke reduction. That's a strong clinical argument for this approach.

Last edited: Dec 6, 2024 at 3:16 AM
20 23LindaRN_retired, tommy_boulder, hyun_seoul and 17 others
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tampaLisa73
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Dec 6, 2024 at 4:00 AM#4
SteveThurs said:
My own curve sits about four points below the published mean and I spent two months assuming that meant something was wrong with me or with my…

Same position here, arrived at the long way round. Relative and absolute effects need reading together. A 20% relative reduction on a high baseline risk is a large absolute benefit; the same relative figure on a low baseline risk is a small one, and press summaries almost always quote the relative number because it is bigger.

Ask again with the specifics and you will get a better answer than this one.

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VendorMark
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Dec 6, 2024 at 2:13 PM#5

From the other side of the consultation, briefly.

Forest plot interpretation for the the trial evidence meta-analysis: when reading the pooled estimate, pay attention to:

  1. Point estimate (HR/RR/OR) — center of the diamond
  2. Confidence interval width — precision of the estimate
  3. I² statistic — heterogeneity across studies
  4. Individual study weights — are results driven by one large trial?
  5. Prediction interval — range of plausible true effects in future settings

The the trial evidence meta-analysis shows a pooled RR of 0.79 (95% CI 0.66-0.89), I²=37%. This is a robust and consistent effect.

22 0claudia_zurich, nancy_portland, rick_sfbay and 19 others
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