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ForumsDosing & ProtocolsHas anyone dealt with injection bruise the size of a quarter - normal???

Has anyone dealt with injection bruise the size of a quarter - normal???

NauseaFreeNow Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:26 PM 42 replies 2,236 viewsPage 1 of 9
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NauseaFreeNow
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Mar 21, 2024 at 12:26 PM#1

This gets cited here weekly, usually second-hand, so it is worth setting out what it does and does not establish.

Holding longer is the underrated move. A step that is uncomfortable at week two is frequently comfortable at week six with no change in dose, because the gastric-emptying component tachyphylaxes while the appetite effect persists. Escalating at week two throws that adaptation away.

Where I think it is weakest: the population was selected and supported in ways a real cohort is not, so I would read the effect size as a ceiling rather than an expectation.

What would genuinely help is knowing what the trials actually did with participants who could not tolerate a step, because that is the situation I am in and the protocol summaries skip it. I have searched first, so if this is covered somewhere point me at it and I will read it.

Note on sourcing:
Figures above are from the primary publication rather than the press summary. If a number here disagrees with one you have, post yours and we will work out which of us is reading a secondary source.
50 20stefan_berlin, Dr.EM_Chicago, pete_RVA and 47 others
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JennaRN
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Mar 21, 2024 at 12:34 PM#2
NauseaFreeNow said:
A step that is uncomfortable at week two is frequently comfortable at week six with no change in dose, because the gastric-emptying component…

No disagreement with NauseaFreeNow. One condition attached. The trials generally allowed a step to be held or reduced and then retried, and people who did that mostly arrived at the same place a few weeks later. The end point of the ladder is set by tolerability, not by a schedule, and there is no evidence that reaching the top faster produces a better outcome.

Last edited: Mar 21, 2024 at 1:34 PM
49 19PeptideSynthNJ, Dr.KarenChen, Dr.NateNeph and 46 others
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Dr.SurgeonPGH
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Mar 21, 2024 at 12:42 PM#3
NauseaFreeNow said:
A step that is uncomfortable at week two is frequently comfortable at week six with no change in dose, because the gastric-emptying component…

I disagree that the ladder is purely tolerability. The maintenance and regain data cluster at the top doses, so a ladder abandoned halfway leaves you outside the evidence base for the part that matters most — keeping it off.

48 18PharmHunterJen, TomTeleRx, DoseLogDan and 45 others
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LindaRN_retired
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Mar 21, 2024 at 12:50 PM#4

Short answer first, then the reasoning. Four weeks is the pharmacokinetics, not caution. With a one-week half-life you need four to five half-lives to reach steady state, so at two weeks you are dosing on top of a concentration that has not finished rising. Escalating then stacks exposure and you get the side-effect burden of the higher dose before you have seen the benefit of the current one.

Last edited: Mar 21, 2024 at 3:50 PM
47 17LondonLisa, mike_nyc, VendorMark and 44 others
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PharmHunterJen
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Mar 21, 2024 at 1:29 PM#5
JennaRN said:
The trials generally allowed a step to be held or reduced and then retried, and people who did that mostly arrived at the same place a few weeks…

Adding a me-too, because a thread of one person's experience is not much use.

46 16mike_mealprep, NicoleRaleigh, james_edin and 43 others
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