Has anyone dealt with what vendors shut down in 2025? the full list is scary?

From the other side of the consultation, briefly. There is a difference between no evidence and evidence of no effect, and this subject is one where the two get swapped freely in both directions.

A narrower follow-up, since the general answer is now clear:

Was that from a primary source or from a summary of one?

julia.endo said:

There is a difference between no evidence and evidence of no effect, and this subject is one where the two get swapped freely in both directions.

This is where I part company with the consensus forming above. I think the framing smuggles in the conclusion. Ask it the other way round and the obvious answer reverses, which usually means the question is doing the work.

Happy to go further on any of that.

julia.endo said:

There is a difference between no evidence and evidence of no effect, and this subject is one where the two get swapped freely in both directions.

Agreed, and one caution: a single measurement is not a measurement. Anything that moves day to day needs a trend before it means anything at all.

Moderator note: leaving this open. It is being argued well and the disagreement is the useful part. No action needed from anybody.